Agenda item

Questioner:

Mr Christopher Bracewell

Asked of:

Councillor Barry Macleod-Cullinane, Deputy Leader and Portfolio Holder for Adults and Housing

Question:

I am one of the head coaches for Harrow amateur boxing club.
I would like to know when the development on Whitchurch Playing Fields is to commence?

Written Answer as Questioner was absent:

It was necessary to hold the matter in abeyance pending consideration of the Town and Village Green application.  The inspector’s report and recommendation to the Council as Registration Authority has now been received and a meeting of the Licensing Committee has now been provisionally arranged for 10 December 2013 to review the findings and make a decision on the TVG application.  At this stage no decisions can or have been made.

Questioner:

Mr Thomas Moran

Asked of:

Councillor Barry Macleod-Cullinane, Deputy Leader and Portfolio Holder for Adults and Housing

Question:

Now that the application for Whitchurch Fields to be registered as a town or village green has been recommended for refusal, could you please give some guidance as to when The Whitchurch Consortium can proceed with their plans to develop a new sport and leisure facility that is needed for all sports enthusiasts, young and old alike, in the borough?

Written Answer as Questioner absent:

A meeting of the Licensing Committee has now been provisionally arranged for 10 December 2013 to review the findings and recommendations of the inspector and make a decision on the TVG application.  At this stage no decisions can or have been made.

Questioner:

RameshNadarajah

Asked of:

Councillor Barry Macleod-Cullinane, Deputy Leader and Portfolio Holder for Adults and Housing

Question:

As a resident of Harrow and member of the consortium, I have been involved with the tender process for Whitchurch Playing Fields since 2009.  The tender was put out by the Conservative Cabinet at that time looking for suitable partners to manage the site.  We were short listed by the same Cabinet and selected by the recent Labour Cabinet.

Please can Councillor Barry Macleod-Cullinane please explain why, after spending a great deal of money time and effort, as well as following the Council’s instruction to the letter, he is now promising to register the site as a village green?

Answer:

Thank you very much for your question.

As you are aware, it was necessary to hold it in abeyance, pending consideration of the Town and Village Green application.  The Inspector’s report and recommendation to the Council as the Registration Authority has now been received and a meeting of the Licensing Committee has to be convened in order to decide what comes next:  Do we accept the Inspector’s recommendation and turn down the application to register Whitchurch Playing Fields as a village green or do we agree to register it in opposition to the Inspector’s report? 

Because the Licensing Committee is actually a quasi-judicial body, it is not right for me to speculate on the outcome of that body.  It is like speculating on a court trial and the judgment made therein.  So, at the moment, we have to wait until the meeting of the Licensing Committee, which I understand has been scheduled for 10 December this year, to make that decision one way or another and as soon as it makes that decision, the Council can then move forward.

Supplemental Question:

So in that case, am I wrong in thinking that your comments about, “it will be kept as a village green” is premature at the moment?

Supplemental Answer:

Absolutely.

Questioner:

RatnasinghamSivakumar

Asked of:

Councillor Susan Hall, Leader of the Council and Portfolio Holder for Community Safety and Environment

Question:

The Whitchurch Playing Fields tender was put out 5 years ago by the Conservative Cabinet, promising to provide sports /environmentally soothing modern facilities for the community.  We as a Cricket Club have played in this field for several years.  Now that you are back in power are you going to finish what you started?

Answer:

We cannot make any decisions until this has gone through the Licensing Committee on 10 December.  They will have to judge whether this should be upheld or not.  So until that time it is quasi-judicial and we are not allowed to comment on it.

Supplemental Answer:

At the time when it was Conservatives, I presented the matters in detail and due to the funding, our matter was not taken further and I have got the documents here with me as to what was given to us for not accepting our tender.  Can I present that one?

Supplemental Answer:

No, nothing can be decided on that particular piece of land until the Licensing Committee has met on 10 December to know whether it is going to be given the permission to be a town village green or not. 

So until 10 December, no decisions on that piece of land can be given at all, or commented upon.  It is a quasi-judicial body that sits and they will have to look at all the evidence and decide what happens to that piece of land before we can go forward.

MrSivakumar:

So all this time, for the last 5 years, whatever action is taken, this was not clarified and lots of time has been wasted on calling for tenders.

Cllr Hall:

What happened in the intervening time is that the local residents put in an application for a town village green which stopped everything.  Until that is determined nothing can happen.  If you would like to contact me separately outside this meeting, I am very happy to sit and discuss it with you but we cannot comment on it now because everything is subject to a meeting on 10 December.  So if you contact me outside Cabinet, I am happy to sit and talk to you. 

MrSivakumar:

Thank you very much.

Cllr Hall:

You are welcome.

Questioner:

Kevin Quincey

Asked of:

Councillor Barry Macleod-Cullinane, Deputy Leader and Portfolio Holder for Adults and Housing

Question:

I have a question for the Council based on troubling information that has come to light.

A Harrow resident named Melanie Lewis has posted online that she has received a promise from the Deputy Leader that Whitchurch Fields WILL be registered as a Town/Village green, despite the application to do so already having been defeated in court.  Earlier she has also proudly stated online that "If nothing else, we’ve slowed the development right down.  We just have to hope that the Consortium get fed up of waiting!” 

I have heard estimates that the Council has spent in the neighbourhood of over £200,000 thus far on professional legal expenses and court costs associated with this green space lark that I think most agree has been a complete waste of time and energy for everyone involved, and an irresponsible use of those Council funds.

How does the Deputy Leader propose the Council will continue to fund such activities which appear to be potentially illegal and in direct opposition to the court ruling, especially considering the impact on the consortium for delays has surely reached multiple millions of pounds now, a sum for which the Council and other actors like Melanie Lewis could potentially be held liable for and have to repay?

Answer:

Thank you Mr Quincey for your question.

I would like to state that I am categorically not responsible for Mrs Lewis’ actions and activities with regard to this site.

The registration officer considered when she did lodge the application as a town and village green that there was a potential conflict of interest as the Council is both land owner and also the regulatory authority and it was therefore held appropriate and good practice, as followed by other Councils, to hold a public inquiry into the actual respect of the town and village green application. 

I am advised by officers that total legal costs so far incurred to date by the Council in both capacities is currently in the region of £60,000.  The Licensing Committee, which I mentioned in my previous answer, is going to be reviewing theInspector’s report and recommendations and is going to then make the decision on whether or not to grant the town and village green application or to uphold the Inspector’s recommendations, which is to turn it down.  No decision has been made to date and it will not be made until 10 December.  I cannot speculate about what they will do because it is like a court function there but the court has yet to rule on it definitively in that sense, that we have to register what the Inspector has recommended.  If we did turn it down then there would be good reason to appeal, because that goes against the recommendations of the Inspector.

MrQuincey:

So I notice you did not respond and tell me whether you had made that promise to Melanie Lewis.

Supplemental Answer:

I do not recall making any such promise to Melanie Lewis and I have looked online at every email that I have sent and I cannot find a statement to that effect.  I did speak in favour of and support the town and village green application when the hearings were on.  I am Ward Councillor, I know of the use of that thing and I thought yes, it seemed to be fitting in the sense of the application.

However, I do not recall ever making a promise to register it and certainly not at the time when we had the hearings.  We were in opposition at this time.  We would not be able to bind the administration.  I am also certain the Leader of the Council has not made an absolute promise either on that front.  There seems to be a scurrilous rumour being put around that I have made these claims.  I did support it.  I have concerns about the consortium and I am on record saying so but I did not, as far as I can recall, ever make a statement or a promise to that effect.  

Questioner:

SubraSkantha

Asked of:

Councillor Barry Macleod-Cullinane, Deputy Leader and Portfolio Holder for Adults and Housing

Question:

We have a club where 70 adults and 45 children play cricket.

Our aim is to make the community children play games when they are free rather than spending times on the roads.

 
Our club is well establish in Middlesex area and most of the players are from Wembley, Harrow, etc.

 
We need grounds facilities to cater the needs of our players and need help from Harrow Council to find a suitable place.

 
Will you have this in mind when you take the decision about abandoned Whitchurch Playing Fields?

Answer:

Thank you for bringing your interest to the meeting about Whitchurch.  Clearly we want to get the best for our residents.  Clearly we want to resolve this but at the moment we are awaiting the outcome of the Licensing Committee, which is being called to decide to uphold or to turn down the Inspector’s recommendation about the bid to register it as town and village green.

If it is turned down then we will be in a situation where we need to decide what happens next.

Supplemental Question:

We have been trying for the last 7-8 years through the Council to get a ground for us without any success and suppose if he carried the community, all the communities from our playing people will get the benefit.  Will you consider our club to cater for that?

Supplemental Answer:

At the moment we have not made any decisions but we in the Council, and I think cross-party, are always concerned to try to support our sporting clubs across the borough.  I am sure that we could look at any site subject to whatever the legal requirements are to see whether or not we can support you and it might be that you want to speak to my colleague, Councillor Manji Kara, Portfolio Holder for Community and Culture, who heads up on culture and sport issues, whether or not we can find an alternative site if Whitchurch Playing Fields are not available.  We as a Council would be concerned to try and support you wherever possible and perhaps we can meet afterwards and chat through that.

Questioner:

T Inpan

Asked of:

Councillor Barry Macleod-Cullinane, Deputy Leader and Portfolio Holder for Adults and Housing

Question:

I live very close to the grounds:  I understand you have been talking with some of the immediate residents regarding the Whitchurch Playing Fields, have you made any effort to speak with the local sports teams or schools that use the site and ask them what they want done?

Answer:

I have spoken to some of those sporting clubs.  I have not been in contact specifically with the schools as such on terms of that because things were somewhat progressed before this all blew up but I would be more than happy to sit down and see what happens.

Currently there has been the letters to and fro from the various schools as part of that Inquiry process.  Versions and different versions have appeared from some of those schools.  I think what we need to do is try to make sure that we have the best outcome for residents, not merely those overlooking the site but in the wider vicinity and making sure our sporting clubs are supported as well, as well as the 2 schools that are immediately adjacent to the site. 

So I think that will be well worth it.  I think overall the whole process has been fairly badly handled in terms of consultation in the wider community and it has been a problem and an issue that has gone on for a number of years.  I think that that needs to be addressed but at the moment we are waiting for the outcome of the Licensing Committee to decide to uphold or turn down the Inspector’s report.  

Supplemental Question:

We would welcome a separate dialogue with you on the grounds as well, as an official in one of the sports clubs interested in the site.

Supplemental Answer:

I am more than happy to meet on that and perhaps Councillor Kara, who is also one of the Ward Councillors, can join us. 

Questioner:

MrWelby

Asked of:

Councillor Susan Hall, Leader of the Council and Portfolio Holder for Community Safety and Environment

Question:

Can the Portfolio Holder for Controlled Parking Zone explain why the Council wants to make residents and businesses in 20 Roads (Queensbury, Edgware, Kenton and other Wards) suffer by having to have permits costing approximately £68 when traffic measures are needed in only 3 Roads in the consultation area?

This is a hammer to crack a small nut in Queensbury Ward and other Wards.

Answer:

There are many, many areas that ask for Controlled Parking Zones and they go on a long list and we gradually get round to them.

We do a consultation to start with to see which roads that local residents think we should do.  No CPZ is put into place if the majority of the people in the area do not want it put in and that is done by road.

Now if you have got 3 roads that are very heavily parked up, all you do if you just put Controlled Parking Zones in that road would be to displace the parking and they would go further.  So very often when we consult, and that is what we do to start with, we consult outside the area so that not only the areas that have got badly parked up roads, the areas next to it can be asked if they would want to be in a zone if the others are in a zone.  Clearly, if you remove all the cars from 3 roads, they will go out further.  There becomes a point at which they will not go out further than that but it is common practice.  It is what we have all done for years, it works and if everything comes back that residents do not want it, they will not get it. 

We have even in the past, certainly when we were responsible before, done half a road if it is a long road and half the road do not want it.  So this stage in Queensbury, this is just a consultation to find out people’s views on what they want and that is what that is about.

Supplemental Question:

What you told me about half the roads, people agree and disagree, residents in Bridgewater Gardens have not been consulted.  Only half of Bridgewater Gardens have been consulted on this scheme because the simple reason is, my turn in Merlin Crescent is likely, if you pass this scheme, you will do the other half of Bridgewater Gardens and spread it round where I live in Merlin Crescent.  What you are saying is this consultation is flawed because you have only consulted half the road.  If you look at the diagram which I have with me, you can see that half of that road and a number of areas off Camrose Avenue have been left off this scheme.

Supplemental Answer:

There has to be a point when one road is a consultation and the next road is not.

If you have got a very long road, very often if it is out of the sphere of where you might be consulting, then you do stop it halfway.  We have just done that in Hatch End because we knew that it would not go all the way down to The Avenue, as an example.

If you are unhappy about something specific, you know me well enough that if you contact the office, I will sit and go through it specifically with you but no decisions have been made in that particular area yet.  It is just a way of consultation.  If people do not want it, we will not put it in.  I can assure you of that but what we do is not by people coming and talking here, we do a consultation where people privately write back to us and tell us whether they do or they do not want it.  So we are right at the very beginning of this.

If you are unhappy, do please come in and see me and we will go through it with the traffic officers so you can see who is being asked and why and if we realise that there could be a mistake then we will absolutely spread the questionnaire further.  No problem at all. 

MrWelby:

Madam Chairman, what you said is not correct from what I have done when I have spoken to Council officers.  They have told me on the phone recently, within the last 3 weeks, that a decision would be taken on 5 February for this scheme.  This is the date I was given by the Council officers under the Traffic Committee of this Council, a decision would be made unless it goes to Cabinet.

Cllr Hall:

Decisions on this will go to TARSAP.  If it is February you have got plenty of time to come and see me and to tell me what you are concerned about.

Questioner:

Mrs Jane Galbraith        

Asked of:

Councillor Janet Mote, Portfolio Holder for Children and Schools or Councillor Susan Hall, Leader of the Council and Portfolio Holder for Community Safety and Environment

Question:

In view of the predicted continuing increase in the need for school places and in view of the number of sites owned by the Council that have potential to be used to build new schools or expand existing schools, what plans does the Council have for identifying and preserving all the Council owned sites that could be suitable for new schools or for the expansion of existing schools?  For example, the Gayton Road site, Debenham's car park and the Civic Centre could be earmarked for educational rather than residential development.

Answer:

Thank you Mrs Galbraith.

Ensuring that every child in Harrow has a school place and receives a high quality education that is a statutory duty.  Harrow’s Cabinet has agreed Phase 1 of the primary expansion programme and the statutory process for Phase 2 which could provide up to 13 additional reception classes in existing schools across Harrow is underway and we will be talking about that later on.

As part of the Local Plan, outlining how the borough will grow in the future, the Children and Families Directorate and the Planning Service have worked hard together to identify the increase in places that would address the increased population needed. 

The primary school expansion programme has been achieved through the development of existing schools.  However, there are other sites that have been developed over time.  Planning permission for the Kodak site in Wealdstone already provides a 3 form entry primary school to meet the site’s educational need as well as providing additional space to meet need in the locality.  At Colart, the Local Plan and emerging planning application makes space for the development of Salvatorian College.  Meanwhile, the Heart of Harrow Local Plan explicitly identifies the former Harrow Teachers’ Centre as the location for a new secondary school places.

Together with the existing programme that we are undertaking, and based upon our current forecasts, we believe that the land set aside in the Heart of Harrow for new educational uses in the Borough is adequate and will meet the future need.  At this stage, the existing provision is expected to be sufficient.  Earmarking other additional land assets which help the borough deliver regeneration and prosperity for all is not considered to be necessary. 

Supplemental Question:

My understanding was that there were forecasts for continuing increase and that we would need a couple more phases and the expansion of existing schools is not ideal, although I support it because we need the places and therefore, I would beg the Council not to throw away the assets that they own that could potentially be used either for expanding a current school on a new site, so that part of it could move to a different site and give more room for expansion, or to provide space for new schools which we hope would be built in due course.

Supplemental Answer:

We will continue to do that. Thank you very much.